Tribal courts strain to balance justice, community healing
Saturday, December 12, 2009
Outside the sweat lodge in his garage in Omak, Tinker Watt, left, a spiritual leader for the Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation, talks to Robert Stafford on a recent afternoon this month. Stafford worked with Watt through Colville Tribal Court. Although he completed his 40 hours of community service, he continues to seek Watt’s spiritual guidance.
Charlene Bearcub, a probation officer for the Colville Confederated Tribes, has many reminders of her son’s death nearly five years ago. Ronald D. Thomas Jr. was 18 when he was shot and killed by his best friend on Jan. 12, 2005, in a small house she can see from her office window. His friend, also 18, was charged with homicide, but acquitted by a jury in Colville Tribal Court. Bearcub says the case should have been investigated by the FBI and prosecuted in federal court. She said she’s tried to convince federal prosecutors to charge the young man who shot him, without success.
Tinker Watt, spiritual leader for the Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation, stands next to his sweat lodge in Omak, where hundreds of boys and men have come for guidance. Among them, Robert Stafford, sitting in front, who helped him build the sweat lodge inside Watt’s garage 10 years ago, and worked with Watt through Colville Tribal Courts to complete his community service hours. Stafford continues to seek spiritual guidance from Watt.
Spiritual leader offers open hand
By K.C. Mehaffey
World staff writer
OMAK — Tinker Watt welcomes all.
Men who’ve committed murder, rape or abuse. Those addicted to drugs or alcohol. And those overwhelmed with pain from all the needless death on the Colville Indian Reservation.
For 10 years, they’ve been coming to his House of Cry in Omak for healing.
Here, they learn the American Indian ways, participate in traditional ceremonies, and take sweats in his adobe-like lodge.
Some make their way to this aging garage made of corrugated tin as part of their sentence from Colville Tribal Court, often to work off community service hours.
One of them — Robert Stafford, a tribal descendant caught a few years ago with a pound of marijuana in his house on the Colville Indian Reservation — said his experience in tribal court wasn’t exactly a positive one. He had to show up in Nespelem 35 or 40 times to get his case resolved. And because he’s not a full-fledged member of the Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation, he didn’t get a public defender.
“Because I’m a descendant, you don’t get a lot of rights, but they’ll take you into tribal jail,” he said.
Still, Stafford said his sentence — to spend 40 hours of community service helping a tribal elder — was fair. And it changed his life.
Probation officers encouraged him to choose a spiritual leader to do his community service with, and he chose Watt. He’d known Watt for years, and even helped him build the sweat lodge years earlier out of plywood, chicken wire and plaster.
But, he said, working with Watt helped him get off drugs and put his life on a spiritual path. He calls himself a “sweat-house junkie” now.
Stafford built his own sweat lodge, and holds his own sweats, which are open to all. Long after his community service hours have been satisfied, he continues to visit Watt, participate in the ceremonies and take sweats at the House of Cry.
“I’ve seen hundreds of youth Natives and non-Natives come through there and get a lot of help there,” Stafford said. “Tinker is a legend in his own time.”
Watt estimates he may have welcomed 1,000 people, young and old, into his sweat lodge. “I’d like to think that the majority of them, they get help here.”
At age 62, Watt said he’s spent a lifetime healing himself, and only in recent years has he truly felt balanced enough to guide others.
His traumatic experiences began in childhood. Like many others, he was sent to a boarding school for American Indians when he was 17 years old. There, with his light skin, the others called him a half-breed because he is not a full-blooded American Indian.
Much of his pain, though, stemmed from his service in Vietnam. “I was in really bad shape when I got home,” he said. “We didn’t know about PTSD. A lot of us just knew we were really messed up.”
Watt came home with a Bronze Star and other medals.
But even though he only did what war required of him, he found it hard to forgive himself for his actions, he said.
He credits a 12-step recovery program, time with counselors and psychiatrists, and lots of self-help books for saving his life.
But it took a spiritual journey for him to learn to cherish life, particularly his own, he said.
He started that journey when he was about 25 years old, and his uncle took him on a vision quest.
He fasted for several days, then prayed by himself on a mountain. He ended that journey with newfound love for his parents, his children, his partner, and most importantly, himself.
He came home with a spirit guide, and his own prayer song.
“That’s where I got on the road to wellness,” he said.
Watt apologizes to anyone who is offended that he shares American Indian spirituality. But, he said, he believes it’s important to share this path with all who seek it. In addition to people in trouble or in pain, he welcomes people of all religions into his sweat lodge, and has led ceremonies with Muslims, Jesuits, Catholic priests and many others.
“Looking at healing — be it emotional or physical — a lot of times, the healing that needs to happen is spiritual,” he said.
Proposed law could change sentencing
By K.C. Mehaffey
World staff writer
WASHINGTON, D.C. — Tribal judges could impose sentences of up to three years under a proposed bill in the U.S. Senate.
The Tribal Law and Order Act of 2009 makes other changes that increase enforcement powers for tribes, and add to the responsibilities of the federal government on Indian reservations.
Among them, it would require federal and local officials to notify tribes when they decline to prosecute crimes, and to turn over all evidence to tribal authorities, although no timeframe for notification is included. It would also provide technical assistance and training for tribal police departments, and encourage joint investigations and sharing of information.
Chairman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, Sen. Byron Dorgan, introduced the bill and said in a news release that there is a crisis in law enforcement on many Indian reservations due to “chronic underfunding” and “confusing, over-lapping law enforcement jurisdictions.”
The Obama Administration endorsed the act last month, and the bill is now on the calendar awaiting action by the full Senate.
Jonnie Bray, deputy prosecutor for the Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation, said it would be nice if tribal judges could impose longer sentences, “as long as they give us the funding for our correctional facility.”
But Bray also has concerns.
“I think it would mean, even more than now, we would hear, ‘No,’ on federal prosecutions.” because U.S. Attorneys would decide the tribal courts can handle it.
Also, she worries about keeping more serious criminals in the tribes’ jail.
“We have a small jail, and you can have basically a kid in there — 18-year-old arrested for minor in possession — next to a man who is in there for rape of a child or murder or even a drive-by shooting.”
K.C. Mehaffey: 997-2512
mehaffey@wenatcheeworld.com
NESPELEM — Charlene Bearcub looks out her office window in Nespelem and does not see justice.
A probation officer for the Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation, Bearcub lost her son to a gun nearly five years ago.
A few blocks away, she can see the small, gray house where her oldest son, Ronald D. Thomas Jr., was shot and killed Jan. 12, 2005.
Next to her office sit two pale yellow prefabricated buildings which house Colville Tribal Court, where a tribal jury acquitted the teenager arrested and charged with her son’s homicide.
They were both 18, and best friends.
Even if he had been convicted, the boy would have spent only a year in jail for the crime, at most, because he was tried in tribal court. Under terms of the Indian Civil Rights Act of 1968, no tribe may impose punishment greater than one year imprisonment. Serious crimes — like rape and murder — are supposed to fall to federal agents to investigate, and the U.S. Attorney for prosecution. But when the U.S. Attorney declines to prosecute, the only other option is tribal court.
Those who work with the Colville Tribal Court — lawyers, judges and advocates — say it’s good at what it was designed to do. Judges focus on healing and rehabilitation. Offenders might be required to research their heritage, take part in ceremonies or work with tribal elders who have the knowledge of traditional ways.
A Peacemaking Circle, now being developed, will eventually keep some cases out of court altogether, resolving them instead with guidance from elders.
But when faced with serious crimes, tribal police and their courts are not as well equipped, tribal leaders say. The Colville tribal chairman, a deputy prosecutor and Bearcub, as a probation officer, all say the one-year limit on punishment, combined with a tendency by the federal government not to prosecute crimes on reservations, gives criminals the impression that serious crimes often don’t result in serious punishments.
“We’re suffering here,” said Colville Tribal Chairman Michael Finley. He said the Bureau of Indian Affairs funds only about half of the tribe’s actual needs for law enforcement. And federal prosecutions are infrequent.
“We’ve had a repeat rape offender in and out of our tribal court for a long time. He keeps getting slapped on the hand. Had that happened 20 miles to the east, he’d still be locked up. But since he’s within the boundaries of the reservation, he seems to be able to do this at will,” Finley said.
He pointed to the death of former tribal Chairman Jude Stensgar, who was 77 when he was fatally shot in his home in Inchelium three years ago. Like Thomas’ death and others, “The federal government refused to take the case,” Finley said.
He added, “What we would like to see is jurisdiction for non-Indians. We’ve created a safe haven, and an unsafe living environment for many of our members” because tribes cannot prosecute people who commit crimes on Indian reservations if they are not American Indian.
Federal or tribal court?
Bearcub said she worried when federal prosecutors didn’t take her son’s homicide case, despite the urging of tribal prosecutors.
“The feds want it all wrapped up with a ribbon on it, and then they’ll take it,” Bearcub said.
“I thought, ‘This is going to send a message to everyone that you can kill someone and get away with it.’ And since my son’s death, it just seems to be escalating. ... They have learned: Stay in the boundary of the reservation, and hope the feds don’t take your case,” she said.
Just last month, two tribal members suffered violent deaths on the sparsely populated 1.4 million-acre Colville Indian Reservation, where about 5,000 tribal and non-tribal members live. A young man was shot in Omak, and a woman was raped and beaten in Nespelem. Both later died of their injuries.
They are under joint investigation by the FBI and Colville Tribal Police.
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, American Indians experience twice as many violent crimes as the general U.S. population. A 2004 report by the federal agency titled, “American Indians and Crime” found that on average American Indians suffer one violent crime for every 10 residents age 12 and older.
Matt Haney, Colville Tribal police chief, said he doesn’t have any statistics on violent crime, but said it’s at least twice as high as other areas he’s worked. “It’s far too high. We’ve had two homicides since I’ve been here,” he said, and that’s not even a year yet. When he left his post as police chief of Bainbridge Island, with a population of about 23,000, there hadn’t been a homicide in 10 years.
Haney said he thinks more cases could move through federal courts with better communication. “Here’s what can happen: We file a case, and we think it’s all going great, and months later we can find out it was never brought before a grand jury. If we know immediately there’s a problem with the case, and we need something changed, it could be investigated right away.”
Bearcub said tribal police, and tribal courts, are just not equipped to handle homicides or other serious crimes.
In her son’s case, the suspect claimed Thomas had the gun and was trying to shoot him when they struggled and it went off. Bearcub said tribal police didn’t check her son’s hands for gun residue. She said the only witness, a woman who was inside the home, was not required to testify or give a statement. The judge would not call a mistrial even though one of the jury members was seen talking to the defendant’s mother before the trial was over, she said. And key testimony from Gina Fino, Chelan County coroner who conducted the autopsy, was given over a scratchy telephone line, with no eye-to-eye contact explaining why it was unlikely that Thomas shot himself.
“It’s like nobody cares,” she said.
Haney — who was not yet Colville Tribal police chief — said it’s not really a matter of whether police are adequately trained, but whether they gather the right evidence so that experts can later draw conclusions from it.
“We only get one shot at a crime scene,” he said. Sometimes, police process a scene and gather all the evidence they think is pertinent, but if an expert is not available to help, it’s too late by the time prosecutors are looking at the case, he said.
Jonnie Bray, deputy prosecutor for the Colville Tribes, said she thinks Thomas’ homicide could have been proved if she had the resources and expertise the FBI can provide.
She said tribal officers told her that based on where the bullet traveled, and where it entered Thomas, Bearcub’s son could not have shot himself without breaking his wrist.
“The officer could tell me that, but we couldn’t prove it without a trajectory analysis,” Bray said. “We don’t have the sophistication here to do that.”
It’s one of many cases Bray believes could have ended in convictions had they been prosecuted in federal court. “The only cases they take are cases they know they can win. So we have many people here who think even if they have to do a year in jail, ‘I can do that standing on my hands.’ That’s the attitude.”
U.S. Attorney Jim McDevitt in Spokane said it’s simply not true that his office picks only cases that are “sure winners.” He said he’s ethically obliged to prosecute only cases justified by law and the admissible facts. And if a judge is likely to suppress evidence necessary to prove the case — like a search warrant or confession — “We have an obligation not to bring that.’ He declined to comment on any specific cases, and the reasons for not prosecuting them, but said he does insist that federal agents investigate all cases for federal court.
Federal prosecutors must convince a grand jury there’s enough evidence to win in a trial, he said. “To charge someone with a crime, even if they are later found to be innocent, is a devastating event which usually carries with it a lifetime of repercussions — financially, emotionally and professionally.”
Bearcub, Finley and others say they’re hopeful the Obama administration will do more to reduce violent crime on reservations. “I think finally something’s being done. It’s unfortunate so many people have had to suffer in the interim,” Finley said.
McDevitt, who has served on the Attorney General’s Native American Issues Subcommittee for eight years, said the U.S. Attorney General and his deputy have already been involved in a series of listening sessions and workshops with tribal representatives and various U.S. Attorneys.
It’s too early to know the results, he said, but, “I would venture to guess that there will be substantial efforts undertaken to deal with the rates of violence in Indian Country,” he said.
Focus on healing
When tribal courts are left to handle the less serious criminal cases, they often win praise.
In Judge Sheilah Cleveland’s courtroom on a recent Friday, the criminal calendar is long. But the associate judge for Colville Tribal Court keeps her patience, and lets each defendant say their piece.
She tells one woman that she’s sorry she has to set her case for trial while prosecutors come up with a new plea agreement. The woman couldn’t pay her $70 fine in the agreed time.
In another case she decides not to fine a man the $10 the prosecutor asked for because he completed all other requirements. She knows the man to be homeless, she said, and the incident occurred right after his mother passed away.
One tribal member, instead of having to post bail, is allowed to get signatures from two tribal members vouching for him.
Later, in her office, Cleveland said it’s important to be mindful of defendants’ financial situations, and how that can prevent them from complying with the court’s requirements.
“I found that you can accomplish a lot more with people when you have an understanding of where they’re coming from,” she said.
“I don’t want people coming to court being afraid. It causes stress, and stress causes sickness,” she said. “I think that tribal court can be friendly, and actually help people.”
Daryl Rodrigues, a new public defender for the tribes, said some of the differences in tribal court — like allowing hearsay — are difficult for him. But, he said, he prefers practicing here because he feels like he actually helps many of the defendants he represents.
“The difference this judge makes — by treating people like humans — is amazing. It makes my day,” he said.
Vicki Hanks, who used to act as an advocate fora battered women in tribal and state court, said state courts tend to view domestic violence as a private matter, while tribal courts see it as a community problem.
“In my personal opinion, they take domestic violence a lot more seriously than state courts do. They don’t just want to punish, they want to heal, both the perpetrator, and the victim,” she said.
Steve Graham, a private defense attorney from Republic, said he, too, is impressed by the concern shown in Colville Tribal Court. “A lot of judges in state court don’t successfully convince the defendant that they really hope the best for them, but in tribal court, that’s just apparent,” he said. Their thoughtfulness shows up in sentencing.
Graham recalled cases in which defendants were required to buy a teddy bear for the victim, or were told to write a book report, or an essay.
Bray said one defendant who threw huckleberries all over the ground of a community center was asked to write about the importance of the berries in tribal culture, and submit his writing to the Tribal Tribune, the Colville Indian Reservation newspaper.
A woman who was having issues with her mother was told to do something traditional to help her mother — who was ill — feel whole again.
“She ended up working with her mom and helping her gather things for a traditional ceremony that were given away as prayers,” she said.
Bearcub said the probation office also tries to tie its community supervision requirements to cultural and spiritual activities that may offer healing.
Things like cutting wood for sweat lodges, building a sweat, going root digging or picking berries can help turn lives around, she said.
Graham said the main problem he sees with tribal court is that it’s not autonomous from the Colville Business Council, the 14 tribal leaders elected to run tribal government.
“I do, on occasion, perceive some amount of meddling or involvement” from the council, he said. “The lack of independence of those two bodies of government has always troubled me, and a lot of my clients down there.”
To former Judge Nadene Naff, a lack of resources was the biggest impediment to success. “A lot of times, the solution is something you don’t have available to you,” she said. For example, she explained, “We don’t have a place to take a battered mother.”
Tribal leaders are now working to develop what’s known as a Peacemaking Circle. “It’s more in line with what we would have done traditionally,” explained Bray. She said rather than a court setting, with winners and losers, tribal elders are consulted, and meet with everyone to find ways to make everyone involved whole again. “We’re all connected,” Bray said, so everyone has a stake in a healing process.
“A lot of people say it’s like mediation, but we hope it’s a little deeper than that,” she said.
But, Bray added, peacemaking won’t solve everything. It might work better for a teenager who had been drinking and damaged someone’s property, she said. “But would peacemaking ever make Charlene Bearcub whole? It just can’t..”
K.C. Mehaffey: 997-2512
mehaffey@wenatcheeworld.com
Comments
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observer (don morris) says...
As a member of the Confederated Tribes of the Colville Indian Reservation, I have a front row seat to view the criminal conduct that goes on here.
From the defacing of public and private property with gang graphiti to the vandalism,burglaries,rape,and homicides that seem to go on undeterred by law enforcment either for lack of manpower or complete frustration on the part of the police whom continue to arrest and then re-arrest the same perps.due to the curremt law of the land.
Is it not time to address the problem directly with an embedded federal task force that can work with and train our tribal law enforcement officers?
Lets put the fear of hard prison time into the perps for a change so we can live without the occasional sound of gunfire in the night.
December 12, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Psycho (Yeah Right) says...
Since Native Americans are allowed to live inside the US borders, but have their own sovereign nation, why would they then expect the US to punish their criminals?
The reason the reservations have such a high crime rate has to to with the free hand outs they receive from the US government. If you received free housing and a check each month what would you do with your free time? What would your children learn to do?
The intelligent thing to do (therefore no politician will ever vote for it) would be to admit that all AMERICANS have been mistreated in the past. Then remove the class system that pays Natives to remain a lesser class. If EVERY citizen was equal (no free checks based on RACE) then all would be under the same inept "justice" system.
What I find inscrutable is that Americans blame their problems on illegal immigrants that work like dogs for little money, and ignore the billions paid to Native Americans who do nothing to benefit our society.
December 12, 2009 at 7:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tero (Tero Karhu) says...
"Since Native Americans are allowed to live inside the US borders"
"and ignore the billions paid to Native Americans who do nothing to benefit our society."
These statements are not opinion worthy of civil discussion, but are outright racism and should be removed!
December 12, 2009 at 9:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bob_Knows (Bob Knows) says...
Good for Psycho for telling the truth about racism. The whole "Indian Nations" program is completely racist.
Shame on Tero for denying the racism of special benefits for Indians based on race, while claiming falsely that acknowledging the truth is "outright racism."
What has been needed for a century is for politicians to declare that racism must end and the so-called "natives" are US citizens like anyone else. The age of racism should be ended in the US,
December 13, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Psycho (Yeah Right) says...
Tero you are correct it is Racism. Unfortunately not from me,but toward the privileged class that receives benefits based on their race. Yup the US government is showing Racism by treating one race of people differently than anyone else. And based on what? Treaties that were signed over a hundred years ago.
My great grandparents where lied to and mistreated by this government also, so wheres my free medical, money, and ability to own land in the US that doesn't have to abide by the laws everyone else does? Try opening a Casino in your house without paying any taxes on the profits.
December 13, 2009 at 9:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tero (Tero Karhu) says...
Your message isn't an attempt to raise the question of tribal policy in this country. You question the right of aboriginal people to live in the US and you say all native americans provide no value to this nation. Just change the subject matter to Germans or Swedes and see how far your lame excuse for debate takes you. Your comments weren't about casino's or treaties, your comments are about people and their right to live in this country. That is racism whether you understand it or not.
December 13, 2009 at 10:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mavulous (mav ulous) says...
Native American tribes have brought these social and cultural problems upon themselves. A nation within a nation is a recipe for disaster. They should have been assimilated long ago, but they didn't want that and now they want the federal government to solve the social problems that they can't solve for themselves? Good Lord, the federal government just last week settled a long running lawsuit in favor of the Indians to the tune of 3.4 billion dollars! I wonder how many jobs that money will create on the reservations? Probably none, but that's beside the point...or is it?
December 13, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kolvillesfinest (Bethi BearCub-Hudson) says...
Your kidding right?? Maybe a few of you should do some more homework or research as to WHY it is the Federal Gov'ts responsibility to handle our major crimes!! I suggest you take some kind of higher ed HISTORY course before you take such and uneducated and ignorant position on this very matter. It wasn't part of any treaty or agreement, it was an action done by CONGRESS!! They voted to take our rights for major crimes from us so that they could properly handle them because they felt us natives didn't do a good enough job. Now look at us. IT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT VIOLENCE IS RAGING OUT OF CONTROL ON OUR LANDS. YES "OUR" LANDS. Only IGNORANT people would say such stupid and lame brain things as "my grandparents suffered this or suffered that, where's my payment?" Do you really think you sound logical? Our rights as NATIVE PEOPLE are granted to us under the Constitution! Maybe you should thank your forefathers just as we do!
December 13, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mavulous (mav ulous) says...
>IT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT VIOLENCE IS RAGING OUT OF CONTROL ON OUR LANDS. YES "OUR" LANDS. <
Answer me this: Are you responsible or in any way accountable for any of the violence that happens on your reservation?
December 13, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Norm (Norm Messer) says...
"And based on what? Treaties that were signed over a hundred years ago."
.
You can't be serious here. This whole countries was theirs. Most of it we just took through force of arms, ie, we stole it; we signed a number of contracts with various tribes allowing them to keep a few tiny slivers of their property. Those tiny portions of their land we allowed them to keep were the portions we considered useless; but the moment we found some resource on their land that we wanted, we immediately breached the contracts we had committed ourselves to and took those lands back (ever hear of a place called the Black Hills?).
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What few contracts we have not yet violated you want to violate now? On the grounds that they're old? What about the treaty for ownership of Manhatten Island - that's one of the oldest - is that no longer valid?
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Any property you or any other immigrant or descendant of immigrants owns is based on a chain of title that goes back "over a hundred years ago". If their title to their property is no longer valid because its old, then neither is yours.
December 13, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Norm (Norm Messer) says...
"Native American tribes have brought these social and cultural problems upon themselves."
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You're clearly not very well-versed in American history, mav.
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"A nation within a nation is a recipe for disaster. They should have been assimilated long ago,"
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Yeah, let's steal their children away from them again like we did in the good old days (not so long ago) to force them to adopt our culture.
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" but they didn't want that"
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Liberty for me, no choice for you.
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"and now they want the federal government to solve the social problems that they can't solve for themselves?"
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The federal government either created or enhanced many of those problems. Remember your chapter and verse, mav: the federal government can't do anything right. You get mad about paying taxes - how mad would you be if they took all your land and stole your children from you?
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"Good Lord, the federal government just last week settled a long running lawsuit in favor of the Indians to the tune of 3.4 billion dollars! I wonder how many jobs that money will create on the reservations? Probably none, but that's beside the point...or is it?"
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Well "the Indians" are not one big group, they are separate nations. And if the feds settled, it was because it looked like they would lose more if they litigated the case. In other words, that money was not a gift or a handout, it was a portion of what the government owed them.
December 13, 2009 at 2:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mavulous (mav ulous) says...
>Well "the Indians" are not one big group, they are separate nations.<
Okay, so I mistyped. I should have typed:
"Many nations within a nation is a recipe for disaster. They should have been assimilated long ago." There, satisfied now? Frankly, I think it reads the same and even more so to my point, which is "they should have been assimilated long ago." Conquered tribes normally surrender and become a part of the dominant nation. It's been that way throughout history as in "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". I recognize that this may not have been possible for Native Americans a hundred years ago due to extreme cultural and language barriers, etc., but it is possible now and it should be reconsidered as part of a permanent solution to the social issues confronting the tribes today. Otherwise, the tribes will likely continue to languish in spite of all we do to try and help them...sad, but true and casinos are not the answer either.
December 13, 2009 at 2:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dixie (Dixie Dringman) says...
Funny how so many support Israel and their continued expansion into Palestinian territory all because a book supposedly written 3000 years ago said that a god gave the Israelis said land. The USA sends more dollars to Israel every year than any other county on the USA dole (why no outrage about that?) All because some believe if we do not support the taking back of the “Chosen Land” by Israel god will not like us anymore. Yet, many of these same people do not think we owe the American Indians anything. Our ancestors made a determined and effective effort to exterminate over 20 million human beings directly through warfare and slaughter of the buffalo, or indirectly through small pox, measles and other infection diseases. These people our ancestors killed were not ignorant savages but complex social structures, with extensive trading networks. This was all justified by saying it was god’s will or Manifest Destiny. Do you think the word genocide can only be used in reference to the Jews? Now many of you complain about "the Mexicans" taking over "your" country and why can't they conform to "our" way of life and learn "our" language. Well our ancestors didn't so maybe it is "What goes around comes around" time for "us". At least the “Mexicans” are not slaughtering us by the millions and taking our homes and lands. Those of you that think the “Indians” are such a drag on our society now what if they like the Israelis began to demand repatriation of all stolen goods. This would include artifacts taken by pothunters, collectors, and museums and all lands taken by force, allotments, and treaty violations. What if American Indians demanded to be compensated for any profits made or cost saved by use of slave labor ( oh ya’ we used American Indians as slaves) like the Jews ( re: Volkswagen) and African Americans (some public buildings ) are now doing? Come on people, before you do some knee jerking reaction to the problems the reservation take a look around your own neighborhood, no drugs, no alcohol, no graffiti, no crime, them go ahead and judge but other wise try to show some compassion. The best start is to put down the Anglo “history” books that tell how every White that was killed was massacred and ever Indian that was killed deserved it. There are some excellent books out there that tell the real story. Shut off the TV and read up on how the west was really won. Sometimes the truth can clear ones eyes of many prejudices.
December 13, 2009 at 3:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Norm (Norm Messer) says...
"Many nations within a nation is a recipe for disaster. They should have been assimilated long ago." There, satisfied now? Frankly, I think it reads the same and even more so to my point, "
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Yeah - that's not the part where the singular/plural made a difference. This is the part where it makes a difference: "settled a long running lawsuit in favor of the Indians to the tune of 3.4 billion dollars!" You can tell which part of your post I'm responding to by looking at the order. For example, if my post goes like this 1 A 2 B 3 C 4 D, where the numbers are quotes and the letters are my post, then A is a response to 1, B is a response to 2, and so on.
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"but it is possible now and it should be reconsidered"
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Who do you think has the right to decide, after such consideration?
December 13, 2009 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Norm (Norm Messer) says...
"Now many of you complain about "the Mexicans" taking over "your" country and why can't they conform to "our" way of life and learn "our" language. "
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Curiously enough, most of the Mexicans who immigrate - ie., not the rich descendents of Spaniards - are also Native Americans.
December 13, 2009 at 3:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tero (Tero Karhu) says...
Psycho, I have reread your first comment and it is as racist this time as when you wrote it, why do you think that natives are only "allowed" to live in the land they were born in, whether in a sovereign nation or not?
I notice you have avoided your last statement:
"What I find inscrutable is that Americans blame their problems on illegal immigrants that work like dogs for little money, and ignore the billions paid to Native Americans who do nothing to benefit our society."
So you think illegal immigrants should have more rights and Native Americans are merely allowed to live here as they have for generations, because you think they provide nothing of benefit to our society. What a warped perspective.
December 13, 2009 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Psycho (Yeah Right) says...
kolvillesfinest (Bethi BearCub-Hudson) "Our rights as NATIVE PEOPLE are granted to us under the Constitution! Maybe you should thank your forefathers just as we do!"
Maybe you should do some research yourself. Natives are nowhere mentioned in the US Constitution.
December 13, 2009 at 3:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Psycho (Yeah Right) says...
Norm "What few contracts we have not yet violated you want to violate now?"
NOT WHAT I SAID AT ALL.
Show me any of those treaties that included free medical, education, freedom from taxes, the ability to sell illegal items (fireworks), a monthly check, etc. Its their land.
Why should they be exempt from the responsibilities all citizen of the US must carry, but have all the benefits?
December 13, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Psycho (Yeah Right) says...
http://thorpe.ou.edu/guide/robertson....
"As non-parties to the United States Constitution, the tribes are not subject to the restrictions contained in the Bill of Rights or subsequent amendments."
December 13, 2009 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Norm (Norm Messer) says...
"NOT WHAT I SAID AT ALL."
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So you're saying that you weren't advocating reneging on our treaties when you wrote this:
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"Yup the US government is showing Racism by treating one race of people differently than anyone else. And based on what? Treaties that were signed over a hundred years ago. "
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So what did you really mean by that reference to "treaties that were signed over a humdred years ago" ?
December 13, 2009 at 4:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Norm (Norm Messer) says...
"Maybe you should do some research yourself. Natives are nowhere mentioned in the US Constitution. "
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Article I, Section 8 specifically mentions Indian tribes.
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Article VI says: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land..."
December 13, 2009 at 4:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Psycho (Yeah Right) says...
Norm I also wrote "The intelligent thing to do (therefore no politician will ever vote for it) would be to admit that all AMERICANS have been mistreated in the past. Then remove the class system that pays Natives to remain a lesser class. If EVERY citizen was equal (no free checks based on RACE) then all would be under the same inept "justice" system." I have no problem with them owning the land they live on. If their government was the equivalent of any city, or even state, that was still completely subject to the federal government, we would not be posting on this article.
The treaties that where signed a hundred years ago didn't include a paid for university education, full medical, or a monthly check from the federal government. They didn't include tax exempt status so the tribes can sell cigarettes, fireworks, or operate casinos.
Only an idiot would claim that the Natives where not mistreated by the US gov. But when do the citizens of the US get to stop paying for those crimes?
December 13, 2009 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mavulous (mav ulous) says...
>Only an idiot would claim that the Natives where not mistreated by the US gov. But when do the citizens of the US get to stop paying for those crimes? <
Good point. Apparently, never, because they can't solve their own problems AND their problems are always our fault.
December 13, 2009 at 4:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Norm (Norm Messer) says...
"If their government was the equivalent of any city, or even state, that was still completely subject to the federal government,"
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Then the US would be in breach of the terms of the Treaty we signed. Part of the Treaty rights include sovereignty over their territory. I'm not certain what all the various treaties have in common, but I'm certain it includes sovereignty and tax exempt status. And if you think they're living high on the hog on Uncle Sam's dime, you're sadly mistaken.
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"But when do the citizens of the US get to stop paying for those crimes? "
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It's not payment for crimes - restitution or reparations. What they get is fulfillment of the terms of the contracts they signed with us - the ones we forced them to sign at gunpoint. And if you think about, we are still getting a pretty sweet deal - what do you suppose the market rate would be to rent 99% of the land area of the US?
December 13, 2009 at 5:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mavulous (mav ulous) says...
>And if you think about, we are still getting a pretty sweet deal - what do you suppose the market rate would be to rent 99% of the land area of the US?<
Are you saying that the treaties we signed indicated that the tribes own 99% of America? You mean I don't own my orchards and home because it still belongs to Native Americans? What kind of substance are you smoking in that peace pipe, Norm?
December 13, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mavulous (mav ulous) says...
>The USA sends more dollars to Israel every year than any other county on the USA dole (why no outrage about that?) All because some believe if we do not support the taking back of the “Chosen Land” by Israel god will not like us anymore.<
Ummm, imo, that's an incredibly naive comment. This nation's strategic foreign policy in the name of vital national interests will always include Israel because of its location in the Middle East. They have always been a trusted ally and we share all kinds of INTEL with them and they with us. Christians postulate that our foreign policy should always uphold and support Israel based on Biblical precepts. However, I doubt that our foreign policy finds its basis in the Bible. Rather, it finds its basis in diplomacy objectives that satisfy our mutual interests.
December 13, 2009 at 6:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Norm (Norm Messer) says...
"Are you saying that the treaties we signed indicated that the tribes own 99% of America? "
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No, I'm saying that what we got from them in those contracts (99%) is far more valuable than what they get from us (whatever federal money they get = less than market value of lease on the 99% would be), so we've got no room to complain.
December 13, 2009 at 7:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mavulous (mav ulous) says...
That assumes that they actually owned the land in the first place. I haven't seen any deeds to that effect. Better put down that peace pipe, Norm, before you become addicted to whatever you've got packed in there.
December 13, 2009 at 8 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tero (Tero Karhu) says...
"That assumes that they actually owned the land in the first place. I haven't seen any deeds to that effect."
Well genius the US should have done a title check before signing the treaties. As they say buyer beware!
December 13, 2009 at 9 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mavulous (mav ulous) says...
>As they say buyer beware!<
Well, I don't buy it so you can stop blowing smoke.
December 13, 2009 at 10:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kolvillesfinest (Bethi BearCub-Hudson) says...
OKAAAY Psycho.... I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where it doesn't say Native Americans eitha!! My point being, some of us have become educated and we've come to use your forefather's own words against em...... so for that I can be thankful!!! lol
December 14, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kolvillesfinest (Bethi BearCub-Hudson) says...
@mauv: Oh we definitely try, but since the Federal Gov't has put their limitations on our judicial systems and they fail to follow through with indicting violent criminals, as they do in all things related to us Natives, of course we have every right to blame the government. It's the Federal Gov'ts responsibility to punish the criminals who commit violent acts. So if ppl are smart enough to know they can get away with committing such crimes, THEY WILL. It is literally out of our hands! We aren't subjected to State laws as most of the Country's population is. And those are the laws your probably familiar with.
December 14, 2009 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alwysoptimistic (Stephanie Yanez) says...
Sometimes old ways need refreshing, including papers like a treatie and constituion. Time has a way of changing things, that is the only constant you can count on.
December 14, 2009 at 1:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bob_Knows (Bob Knows) says...
Its time to end the racism and treat all men as equal under the law.
December 14, 2009 at 2:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
artmann (Art Mann) says...
Bob, Liberals can't comprehend that solution, where would they get votes if they couldn't convince some group they were mistreated?
December 14, 2009 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Martin (Martin Reginald) says...
"Sometimes old ways need refreshing, including papers like a treatie and constituion"
If referring to the American Constitution, can anyone tell our poster what two methods the founders provided, within said document, to refresh, change, or do away with that dusty, old, multi-page piece of parchment?
December 14, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Justus (Justus Justus) says...
Given the true Spirit of Justice, we can then as a people learn from the value of love for one another, this includes those inside and outside the boundaries of US or Reservation Jurisdiction. The Civil Rights Act of 1968 suggests under Title II-Rights of Indians, (sec. 201) (2) "powers of self-government" means and includes all governmental powers possessed by an Indian Tribe, executive, legislative, and judicial, and all offices, bodies, and tribunals by and through which they are exectued, including courts of Indian offenses; and (3) "Indian court means any Indian tribal court or court of Indian offense." We can direct our attention to the principle of law concerning "soveriegnty & plenary power" - Case of interest: US v Kagama asserts Federal power on Tribal issues - this in mind, Plenary Acts of Congress ICRA [above] clearly and explicitly states that Tribes have a Competent Court System. The simple fact is that it is within the rights of Tribal Government to exercise their inherent right to "govern themselves" and pass ordinances/regulations that cleary is stated in a revised and amended Constitution (emphasis added) - so, the bottom line is safety of the people, and I suggest for any Tribal Government to exercise these inherent rights and dont wait for Acts of Congress, State Legislations, or whathave you, amend new law in the spirit of the Tribe - and carry out those laws in Tribal Courts - If a law cleary states X provided the Competency of the Constitution [affirmed by ICRA] then allow the due process of law be carried out in Tribal Courts. Why wait for approval for such sovereign actions, when it is your (Tribal Council/Government) duty and responsibiltiy to apply Tribal Sovereignty. One may say, "what about the Major Crimes Act?" It is obvious, stack the charges against the person who violates clearly stated codes and regulations both in cases of criminal or civil. And, what is this 1 yr. deal - I dont understand this - Look how old the Indian Reorganization Act is? (1934) - update, revise, and amend a Constitution that reflects Tribal Justice {White Mountain Apache Tribe v Bracker, Salish & Kootenai Tribes v Montana, New Mexico v Mescalero Apache Tribe, US v Mazurie & 18 U.S.C.A 1154].
The comments expressed here is a concern that needs attention for sure - and the principle of common sense is quit clear, appropriate communications can teach those who are open to constructive dialogue - yes, there is frustration - now, the issue arises - what can we do to help out our brothers and sisters better understand the True Spirit of Justice. It is the simple fact that we are a people - not without sin or mistake for sure, but a people who see's and feels that a problem exists and needs to be solved.
December 15, 2009 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
RichDick (Richard Greene +) says...
Thank you, K.C. Mehaffey, for an excellent, in my opinion, discussion of the handling of problems of healing and justice on the Reservation, and the relationship between Tribal and Federal authorities in handling them.
I think the Indians are on the right track seeking healing through the Spirit and such traditional means as sweat lodges. These will satisfy the needs of humans, individually and in society, long before abrogation of solemn treaties and other such dominative means suggested by Psycho and Malvelous do.
The law is (Galatians 5:14) in one word, simply, 'Love thy neighbor as thyself.'
I think the Indians, the Native Americans, are a lot closer to obeying that law, and always have been, than we allopathic whites, who want to look at them as someone or something different from ourselves.
The records of the Adjutant General of the United States Army's office show that at one time the Reservation for Indians, which is now confined to the Colville Reservation, included all lands from the crest of the Cascade Mountains to the upturn of the Columbia River, and from the Canadian Border to the north shore of Lake Chelan. What happened is that white men continuallly encroached on Indian property until it was reduced to its present limited dimensions. "No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law." (Article 4 in addition to and amendment of the Constitution of United States of America.)
Is our Constitution to be what it says it is, ("To form a more perfect union,) or is it simply a collusive conspiracy to commit genocide of all indigenous peoples of Planet Earth, for our own profit and benefit?
RichDick Greene +
December 18, 2009 at 9:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )