In his column this week, regarding the TTC Tracy Warner says, "With a lot of hard work from its staff it just about breaks even, and that is an accomplishment. It generates no wealth beyond that" Um, "nearly breaking even" = running at a loss, which means that every time it's open, we LOSE MORE money..If we can't even face that simple fact and come to the logical conclusion, then there's no hope of rational thinking from our commujnity leaders on the big problem. We need to stop the hemorrhaging of cash by closing the doors, for starters. Not a multimillion- dollar step, but a start.Yup, no more hockey games or concerts, because we can't afford them, because they're further draining the budget- it was always a lie that the arena would make money or even pay the light bill, so let's get real about that.- and this will require that not only the World and City Council, but even those of us who're complaining put our recreation where our mouths are. This getting responsible thing isn't simple or palatable.
And despite all the talk about saving the thing without defaulting on the loan/s, it’s high time we had a serious discussion about default, about giving up the municipal credit card until or unless we get some responsible leaders who take pains to guarantee that basic city services are provided for first, last and foremost, for say, 20-30 years. We pay rent, power and food for the kids before toys for grownups, and if we never get the grownups' toys, we find our satisfaction in having a healthy "family"; this is success for any community..
So apart from the word "devastating" or even "disastrous", could we have some facts and figures to decide for ourselves whether default is a fesaible option? Because I for one do not agree to pay for Dennis Johnson's "guarantee" with higher taxes, or reductions in police, fire, street maintenance, snow plowing, garbage and water and sewer services.
No, you can't sell this turkey; and it's interesting to find you admitting that's what it is, Mr. ,Warner, as you were a major booster. Never mind- however, this is problematic: "With a lot of hard work from its staff it just about breaks even, and that is an accomplishment. It generates no wealth beyond that" "nearly breaking even" = running at a loss, which means that every time it's open, we LOSE MORE money..If we can't even face that simple fact and come to the logical conclusion, then there's no hope of rational thinking from our community leaders on the big problem. We need to stop the hemorrhaging of cash by closing the doors, for starters. Yup, no more hockey games or concerts, because we can't afford them, because they're further draining the budget- it was always a lie that the arena would make money or even pay the light bill, so let's get real about that.- and this will require that not only the World and City Council, but even those of us who're complaining put our recreation where our mouths are. This getting responsible thing isn't simple or palatable.
And despite all the talk about saving the thing without defaulting on the loan/s, it is high time we had a serious discussion about default, about giving up the municipal credit card until or unless we get some responsible leaders who take pains to guarantee that basic city services are provided for first, last and foremost, for say, 20-30 years. We pay rent, power and food for the kids before toys for grownups, and if we never get the grownups' toys, we find our satisfaction in having a healthy "family", a solid roof, basic transport and a cop on the corner. We recognize that this is success for any community..
So apart from the word "devastating" or even "disastrous", could we have some facts and figures to decide for ourselves whether default is a fesaible option? Because I for one do not agree to pay for Dennis Johnson's "guarantee" with higher taxes, or reducions in police, fire, street maintenance, snow plowing, garbage and water and sewer services. .
Well, it would be nice to sue Global for grossly misrepresenting the revenue potential, especially in light of the fact that they'd talked quite a few other towns into building arenas, and all of them had failed to bring in anything like that $900,000 profit. But on the other .hand, litigation takes money, successful litigators are very expensive- and Global would likely point out that Johnson et al had not done due diligence in researching the bottom line of all those other arenas. But boy, it's a nice daydream in the face of this disaster!
Then, too, last time I looked, Global was unable to deal on the stock exchange, and were selling stock directly, for anywhere from 25 to 50 cents a share- yeah, that's cents, not dollars. So they couldn't pay a settlement anyway. Rats!
Default would be "disastrous"? By lowering Wenatchee's ability to borrow more money to fund boat docks, an indoor farmers' market, condos, shops and laundromats to fill up our riverfront parks? How awful. I'm thinking that may be the bitter medicine that would cure our elected officials' craving for reshaping our community to reflect their own fantasies.
This isn't going to affect only the "frills", but vital services that keep our community safe and clean. If we could get this albatross off our necks, we might restore adequate funding for police, fire, roads, and other necessities, and if there's anything left, perhaps even pools and art classes for our kids.
My vote goes to defaulting and reducing the ability of another Mayor Johnson to go on a spending spree next time a snake-oil salesman sidles into town.
Well said, Mr. Gellatly. But the saddest truth about this is that it is not all over and making the payments and sacrificing those mandated services year after year our inevitable fate. Bad news keeps coming at us- how likely is it that the city will obtain a bond issue, now, already looking completely irresponsible for buying the arena deal in the first place, despite information that said it couldn't pay for itself? How available are bonds in this economy, anyway? And what happens if there's no bond issue? A mortgage from a Wall St bank at 8% interest? Over $4 million a year for 30 years?
We can take as read that this thing was rammed through by Mayor and a compliant Council. That part is over. But is there a set of fallback plans, now that the truth is blatantly obvious? Other than stubbornly insisting that it will eventually be feasible, what are the Mayor and Council doing about these questions?
And since the city IS mandated to provide necessary services, what is our recourse as residents when our houses burn for lack of firefighters and equipment, or broken water mains, or when police response time slows dangerously and someone gets killed as a result? When gangs flourish for lack of task force personnel? Which obligation is primary, the mandated services for citizens' afety, or a promise to pay off the "mortgage" on the arena?
The decision-making on this arena debacle is not over, and will never be over until it is paid off or we manage to sell it to some other poor sucker. With the ongoing decision-making comes responsibility for all of us to participate, and the City to listen to us, and the World to inform us, not stash the hard reporting away in archives within 36 ours of printing them.
A resigned shrug and walking away is irresponsible citizenship; especially since Mr. Johnson and Ms. Williams, and some Council members seem to think that the arena is Tinkerbell- if they can just make us all believe, it will thrive, and if we all see the truth, it will die.
The entire riverfront development project "dream" was cooked up by real estate people, developers, and the self-appointed elite; no one is asking the rest of us whether we want our riverfront developed, our park edged with 50-foot tall apartment buildings, shops, laundromats, restaurants, turned into a front yard for what Mr. Johnson once called "quality people". No one is asking us if we want still more of our taxes spent greasing the way for the developers- they want a dock? Let them pay for it, and the paddle-wheeler they fantasize- this is their dream, where's their fiscal sacrifice?
OK, so the arena cleared a little over $100,000 on operations this past year. The city is the management, via PFD so the city would have to pay for advertising (remember they only have $100,000 to risk, pretty much the whole city budget is devoted to the $1.5 million debt service each year) and it has no money for advertising, improved food or extra staff to serve in the stands. The seats are narrow and uncomfortable, the food stinks, and it isn't a big surprise those concerts often lost money- lots of money for Los Tigres. And then there's the recession...
What we have here is an economic sinkhole; focusing on operating revenue and loss is a distraction from the sound of $1.5 million going down that hole every living year for, what 20-30 years? Fat times, lean times, every year it eats that amount- IF the city was able to get bonds issued, but we don't know that. Why don't we know that, Wenatchee World?
The reason you see the Wild advertised is that they're the anchor tenant- they get first preference on arena dates and times, the other events have to be squeezed in on Tuesday nights and other non-prime times; the Wild also get well advertised.
BTW, speaking as a taxpayer levied every few years for school faciities that do include auditoriums and gyms, I really don't want the district paying rent to the arena for plays, events, or graduations. And if they use the arena free of charge, what's the point, in terms of revenues for the arena?.
Yesterday there was a story about over 60 trees being on the chopping block. Supposedly they were "hazard" trees, but there was a comment posted by the reporter that suggested some of the trees were being cut to improve the view of the river for the proposed condos, at the instigation of the developers. Tonight I can't find that story or that comment- World, will you make that story and all comments to it available, please? It begins to appear that the reporter's comment blew the cover story that the trees were dangerous, when in fact some were just not wanted by the developers- at an estimated cost to the PUD of something like $50,000, we deserve the chance to take a hard look at this clearing of our trees, in our park. The disappearance of the story is shaking my confidence in the paper's integrity, a feeling I would like to dispel..
A program based entirely or nearly entirely on punishment (rather than encouragement, support, recognition of individuality and honest appreciation) may produce obedience- especially if the punishments shame and humiliate children- but it doesn't do a thing to make students love school or learning. Likewise, an excessive emphasis on compliance and conformity does not teach kids to think independently, to risk making mistakes, to speak out when they see the Emperor has no clothes on. Make Your Day may produce a quiet classroom, but it doesn't produce creativity, critical thinking, or the courage to speak truth to power. We have too many passive citizens already. There's also something really creepy about the group criticism or the forced self-abasement of children. What was it they called this in China years ago during one of their cultural revolutions? Oh yeah: re-education.
Norm, we have agreed on a number of issues, but I disagree that the only factor in the outrage about illegal aliens is racism. To simply fling that accusation at people indiscriminately is counterproductive, and worse, it makes you unable to hear the other concerns clearly- you're too bright to fall down that rabbit hole. The article states that up to 80% of the Hispanic community in Bridgeport/Brewster is illegal, and a too-long-delayed ICE action results in the local economy being hit very hard surely makes it clear that this is not sustainable. Work visas are fine, if there is a way to ensure that the problem isn't just being perpetuated when the visa runs out and the worker stays undocumented. There are also negative consequences to a constant and massive inflow of people who think it's okay to flout the laws, and if we cannot discuss them rationally and try to find solutions that work, there will be endless years of problems.
Also, the fact that major coprorations have done enormously greater harm to our country than a packing plant that intentionally exploits illegals doesn't exonerate the Gebbers owners. I guess I see responsibility being denied at too many levels these days- every person who enters the country illegally and stays until busted for it is culpable; every employer who cheats is culpable; every person who goes to WalMart to buy cheap goods produced by slave labor is culpable; every corporation that offshores both jobs and its earnings is culpable; every politician who takes corporate cash and favors the corporations over the people is culpable. No one is less responsible for their own actions just because there are bigger entities who do wrong .
Governor Gregoire sent a letter to WFSE in December asking state employees to step up and volunteer to take responsibility for closing that $2.6 billion gap- - all of it- with cuts to jobs, hours, pay, and benefits. This after state employees had taken several rounds of cuts already. There are many "line" workers who are the sole support of their families, who lost as much as 2/3 of thier IRAs to Wall St failures and are near retirement age, there are workers who have school loans to repay, mortgages as unfavorable as anyone else. In short, to expect that state workers are able to absorb the state's deficit gaps indefinitely is unreasonable, as well as unfair.
Most "state workers" don't just put in their time and go home- they give generously of their own time and money from their wages to help others- both clients and coworkers. This paper has been promoting an image of greedy, lazy, incompetent state workers that is inaccurate and unjust. No one is perfect, but the vast majority of "state workers" are hard-working, generous, committed people who do a difficult, demanding and sometimes hazardous job with skill, compassion, and grace. They have sacrificed and will sacrifice more- and they deserve better editorial treatment.
Just out of curiosity, while urging sacrifices by workers, where is the call for sacrifice on the part of corporations who have taken bailout money and who enjoy tax loopholes even in the worst recession? A state or other government worker who makes a pretty ordinary middle-class income is seen as greedy and selfish, while the ultra-rich are assumed to have no civic responsibiity at all, and we seem to excuse their tendency to dump workers rather than forego that end-of-year $2 million bonus! There's a reason the middle class is disappearing and the gap between welathy and poor is wider than ever before.
Making the best of a bad situation
In his column this week, regarding the TTC Tracy Warner says, "With a lot of hard work from its staff it just about breaks even, and that is an accomplishment. It generates no wealth beyond that" Um, "nearly breaking even" = running at a loss, which means that every time it's open, we LOSE MORE money..If we can't even face that simple fact and come to the logical conclusion, then there's no hope of rational thinking from our commujnity leaders on the big problem. We need to stop the hemorrhaging of cash by closing the doors, for starters. Not a multimillion- dollar step, but a start.Yup, no more hockey games or concerts, because we can't afford them, because they're further draining the budget- it was always a lie that the arena would make money or even pay the light bill, so let's get real about that.- and this will require that not only the World and City Council, but even those of us who're complaining put our recreation where our mouths are. This getting responsible thing isn't simple or palatable.
And despite all the talk about saving the thing without defaulting on the loan/s, it’s high time we had a serious discussion about default, about giving up the municipal credit card until or unless we get some responsible leaders who take pains to guarantee that basic city services are provided for first, last and foremost, for say, 20-30 years. We pay rent, power and food for the kids before toys for grownups, and if we never get the grownups' toys, we find our satisfaction in having a healthy "family"; this is success for any community..
So apart from the word "devastating" or even "disastrous", could we have some facts and figures to decide for ourselves whether default is a fesaible option? Because I for one do not agree to pay for Dennis Johnson's "guarantee" with higher taxes, or reductions in police, fire, street maintenance, snow plowing, garbage and water and sewer services.
April 8, 2011 at 9:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
You can’t sell an arena’s debt
No, you can't sell this turkey; and it's interesting to find you admitting that's what it is, Mr. ,Warner, as you were a major booster. Never mind- however, this is problematic: "With a lot of hard work from its staff it just about breaks even, and that is an accomplishment. It generates no wealth beyond that" "nearly breaking even" = running at a loss, which means that every time it's open, we LOSE MORE money..If we can't even face that simple fact and come to the logical conclusion, then there's no hope of rational thinking from our community leaders on the big problem. We need to stop the hemorrhaging of cash by closing the doors, for starters. Yup, no more hockey games or concerts, because we can't afford them, because they're further draining the budget- it was always a lie that the arena would make money or even pay the light bill, so let's get real about that.- and this will require that not only the World and City Council, but even those of us who're complaining put our recreation where our mouths are. This getting responsible thing isn't simple or palatable.
And despite all the talk about saving the thing without defaulting on the loan/s, it is high time we had a serious discussion about default, about giving up the municipal credit card until or unless we get some responsible leaders who take pains to guarantee that basic city services are provided for first, last and foremost, for say, 20-30 years. We pay rent, power and food for the kids before toys for grownups, and if we never get the grownups' toys, we find our satisfaction in having a healthy "family", a solid roof, basic transport and a cop on the corner. We recognize that this is success for any community..
So apart from the word "devastating" or even "disastrous", could we have some facts and figures to decide for ourselves whether default is a fesaible option? Because I for one do not agree to pay for Dennis Johnson's "guarantee" with higher taxes, or reducions in police, fire, street maintenance, snow plowing, garbage and water and sewer services. .
April 8, 2011 at 8:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Long-term bonds could be best bet for debt
Well, it would be nice to sue Global for grossly misrepresenting the revenue potential, especially in light of the fact that they'd talked quite a few other towns into building arenas, and all of them had failed to bring in anything like that $900,000 profit. But on the other .hand, litigation takes money, successful litigators are very expensive- and Global would likely point out that Johnson et al had not done due diligence in researching the bottom line of all those other arenas. But boy, it's a nice daydream in the face of this disaster!
Then, too, last time I looked, Global was unable to deal on the stock exchange, and were selling stock directly, for anywhere from 25 to 50 cents a share- yeah, that's cents, not dollars. So they couldn't pay a settlement anyway. Rats!
March 14, 2011 at 6:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Long-term bonds could be best bet for debt
Default would be "disastrous"? By lowering Wenatchee's ability to borrow more money to fund boat docks, an indoor farmers' market, condos, shops and laundromats to fill up our riverfront parks? How awful. I'm thinking that may be the bitter medicine that would cure our elected officials' craving for reshaping our community to reflect their own fantasies.
This isn't going to affect only the "frills", but vital services that keep our community safe and clean. If we could get this albatross off our necks, we might restore adequate funding for police, fire, roads, and other necessities, and if there's anything left, perhaps even pools and art classes for our kids.
My vote goes to defaulting and reducing the ability of another Mayor Johnson to go on a spending spree next time a snake-oil salesman sidles into town.
March 10, 2011 at 7:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Manage arena, convention center together, consultant says
Well said, Mr. Gellatly. But the saddest truth about this is that it is not all over and making the payments and sacrificing those mandated services year after year our inevitable fate. Bad news keeps coming at us- how likely is it that the city will obtain a bond issue, now, already looking completely irresponsible for buying the arena deal in the first place, despite information that said it couldn't pay for itself? How available are bonds in this economy, anyway? And what happens if there's no bond issue? A mortgage from a Wall St bank at 8% interest? Over $4 million a year for 30 years?
We can take as read that this thing was rammed through by Mayor and a compliant Council. That part is over. But is there a set of fallback plans, now that the truth is blatantly obvious? Other than stubbornly insisting that it will eventually be feasible, what are the Mayor and Council doing about these questions?
And since the city IS mandated to provide necessary services, what is our recourse as residents when our houses burn for lack of firefighters and equipment, or broken water mains, or when police response time slows dangerously and someone gets killed as a result? When gangs flourish for lack of task force personnel? Which obligation is primary, the mandated services for citizens' afety, or a promise to pay off the "mortgage" on the arena?
The decision-making on this arena debacle is not over, and will never be over until it is paid off or we manage to sell it to some other poor sucker. With the ongoing decision-making comes responsibility for all of us to participate, and the City to listen to us, and the World to inform us, not stash the hard reporting away in archives within 36 ours of printing them.
A resigned shrug and walking away is irresponsible citizenship; especially since Mr. Johnson and Ms. Williams, and some Council members seem to think that the arena is Tinkerbell- if they can just make us all believe, it will thrive, and if we all see the truth, it will die.
The entire riverfront development project "dream" was cooked up by real estate people, developers, and the self-appointed elite; no one is asking the rest of us whether we want our riverfront developed, our park edged with 50-foot tall apartment buildings, shops, laundromats, restaurants, turned into a front yard for what Mr. Johnson once called "quality people". No one is asking us if we want still more of our taxes spent greasing the way for the developers- they want a dock? Let them pay for it, and the paddle-wheeler they fantasize- this is their dream, where's their fiscal sacrifice?
March 23, 2010 at 8:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rock or Jock? Town Toyota Center looks for a winning revenue mix
OK, so the arena cleared a little over $100,000 on operations this past year. The city is the management, via PFD so the city would have to pay for advertising (remember they only have $100,000 to risk, pretty much the whole city budget is devoted to the $1.5 million debt service each year) and it has no money for advertising, improved food or extra staff to serve in the stands. The seats are narrow and uncomfortable, the food stinks, and it isn't a big surprise those concerts often lost money- lots of money for Los Tigres. And then there's the recession...
What we have here is an economic sinkhole; focusing on operating revenue and loss is a distraction from the sound of $1.5 million going down that hole every living year for, what 20-30 years? Fat times, lean times, every year it eats that amount- IF the city was able to get bonds issued, but we don't know that. Why don't we know that, Wenatchee World?
The reason you see the Wild advertised is that they're the anchor tenant- they get first preference on arena dates and times, the other events have to be squeezed in on Tuesday nights and other non-prime times; the Wild also get well advertised.
BTW, speaking as a taxpayer levied every few years for school faciities that do include auditoriums and gyms, I really don't want the district paying rent to the arena for plays, events, or graduations. And if they use the arena free of charge, what's the point, in terms of revenues for the arena?.
March 8, 2010 at 7:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Crews cut down treacherous trees
Yesterday there was a story about over 60 trees being on the chopping block. Supposedly they were "hazard" trees, but there was a comment posted by the reporter that suggested some of the trees were being cut to improve the view of the river for the proposed condos, at the instigation of the developers. Tonight I can't find that story or that comment- World, will you make that story and all comments to it available, please? It begins to appear that the reporter's comment blew the cover story that the trees were dangerous, when in fact some were just not wanted by the developers- at an estimated cost to the PUD of something like $50,000, we deserve the chance to take a hard look at this clearing of our trees, in our park. The disappearance of the story is shaking my confidence in the paper's integrity, a feeling I would like to dispel..
January 14, 2010 at 6:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Parents still concerned about Make Your Day
A program based entirely or nearly entirely on punishment (rather than encouragement, support, recognition of individuality and honest appreciation) may produce obedience- especially if the punishments shame and humiliate children- but it doesn't do a thing to make students love school or learning. Likewise, an excessive emphasis on compliance and conformity does not teach kids to think independently, to risk making mistakes, to speak out when they see the Emperor has no clothes on. Make Your Day may produce a quiet classroom, but it doesn't produce creativity, critical thinking, or the courage to speak truth to power. We have too many passive citizens already.
There's also something really creepy about the group criticism or the forced self-abasement of children. What was it they called this in China years ago during one of their cultural revolutions? Oh yeah: re-education.
January 13, 2010 at 7:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Layoffs leave Brewster waiting, worrying
Norm, we have agreed on a number of issues, but I disagree that the only factor in the outrage about illegal aliens is racism. To simply fling that accusation at people indiscriminately is counterproductive, and worse, it makes you unable to hear the other concerns clearly- you're too bright to fall down that rabbit hole. The article states that up to 80% of the Hispanic community in Bridgeport/Brewster is illegal, and a too-long-delayed ICE action results in the local economy being hit very hard surely makes it clear that this is not sustainable. Work visas are fine, if there is a way to ensure that the problem isn't just being perpetuated when the visa runs out and the worker stays undocumented. There are also negative consequences to a constant and massive inflow of people who think it's okay to flout the laws, and if we cannot discuss them rationally and try to find solutions that work, there will be endless years of problems.
Also, the fact that major coprorations have done enormously greater harm to our country than a packing plant that intentionally exploits illegals doesn't exonerate the Gebbers owners. I guess I see responsibility being denied at too many levels these days- every person who enters the country illegally and stays until busted for it is culpable; every employer who cheats is culpable; every person who goes to WalMart to buy cheap goods produced by slave labor is culpable; every corporation that offshores both jobs and its earnings is culpable; every politician who takes corporate cash and favors the corporations over the people is culpable.
No one is less responsible for their own actions just because there are bigger entities who do wrong .
January 9, 2010 at 9:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Creative sacrifice to cut a deficit
Governor Gregoire sent a letter to WFSE in December asking state employees to step up and volunteer to take responsibility for closing that $2.6 billion gap- - all of it- with cuts to jobs, hours, pay, and benefits. This after state employees had taken several rounds of cuts already. There are many "line" workers who are the sole support of their families, who lost as much as 2/3 of thier IRAs to Wall St failures and are near retirement age, there are workers who have school loans to repay, mortgages as unfavorable as anyone else. In short, to expect that state workers are able to absorb the state's deficit gaps indefinitely is unreasonable, as well as unfair.
Most "state workers" don't just put in their time and go home- they give generously of their own time and money from their wages to help others- both clients and coworkers. This paper has been promoting an image of greedy, lazy, incompetent state workers that is inaccurate and unjust. No one is perfect, but the vast majority of "state workers" are hard-working, generous, committed people who do a difficult, demanding and sometimes hazardous job with skill, compassion, and grace. They have sacrificed and will sacrifice more- and they deserve better editorial treatment.
Just out of curiosity, while urging sacrifices by workers, where is the call for sacrifice on the part of corporations who have taken bailout money and who enjoy tax loopholes even in the worst recession? A state or other government worker who makes a pretty ordinary middle-class income is seen as greedy and selfish, while the ultra-rich are assumed to have no civic responsibiity at all, and we seem to excuse their tendency to dump workers rather than forego that end-of-year $2 million bonus! There's a reason the middle class is disappearing and the gap between welathy and poor is wider than ever before.
January 9, 2010 at 9:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )